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Why I don't like SUMO

  1. Now, it’s Firefox-centric. In the future will be Mozilla centered, but now, not.
  2. For the es-ES community, we have another project: Mozilla Hispano, which has a lot of documentation, but it’s for now in a development moment, so it will grow a lot in the future.
  3. Related to the web-based system:
    1. In-product help in Firefox 2 are 14 files. The import to SUMO: 14. Right now: es-ES has 14 articles. en-US more than 150. So, should we translate all en-US? (I think it will be the reference language). I think it is a very very expensive option, l10n teams will stay all day watching articles (150-200-500, who knows!!) to updating it to the latest version.
    2. Positive: all can edit pages and contribute to help others
    3. Negative: communities with a big numbers of members and help had to migrate all their docs? could we import from sumo to our wikis? and vice versa? (mmm, licences?)
    4. Both: only few people can approve changes and edit them before people could see it so there is always a time without the «best» answer to a problem.
  4. Live chat: I think all es-XX translation should have one live chat, because our l10n are not too different and if an user need help at 6am, be sure that no es-ES people (well, if we are back from a party…) be in that, but maybe some es-AR people.

Ping: David Tenser and Chris Ilias on: http://blog.mozilla.com/sumo/2008/02/29/sumo-talk-at-fosdem-2008/

Thanks guys!

And… sorry for my very bad English!! I will try to learn more and more for the next FOSDEM 😛

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  1. Thanks for your feedback. Let me try to address/answer them all:

    1: Yes, we are currently focusing on Firefox, but the hard work that we’re doing with the infrastructure should be usable for any software project. The emphasis for us is really «Support,» not «Firefox Support.» We’re choosing to narrow the scope initially because we think this will help us move forward faster. We also believe Firefox is the Mozilla project that most desperately needs better support, because of the huge user base.

    2: I’m not sure why you would dislike SUMO because of Mozilla Hispano, unless you view SUMO as a competitor. I view it as a compliment, because we’re working towards the same noble goal here: improving Firefox support. 🙂 What we’re trying to build with SUMO is a support infrastructure that will make it easier for end-users to find the information they need, and for contributors to write, update, and translate articles. If you prefer to use your own solution, that’s obviously fine as well. You will find benefits and drawbacks with both sites, I’m sure. In any case, it sounds like the Spanish home page of SUMO should link to Mozilla Hispano.

    3.1: Just as with Mozilla Hispano, you are free to write exactly the articles that you want to write. 🙂 There is no demand that you have to translate x number of articles. The good thing about SUMO is that we already have articles (en-US) for the most common issues in Firefox, and by looking at e.g. the top 10 list, you have a pretty good idea of what articles would benefit the most from being translated to Spanish. It’s not that important that articles are 100% up to date either. Only when a _significant_ change is made in the en-US article you’ll see a notification about it on the translated page. Normally, this shouldn’t happen often, and when it does, it should be something important that you would want to update anyway.

    3.2: Yes, this is one of the strengths of the wiki system. Anyone can help improving the contents, and as people prove themselves, they can get more privileges like approving other people’s changes.

    3.3: While I certainly wouldn’t mind if people ported articles over to SUMO, that is not at all a requirement. In fact, that would be impossible for us to dictate, since we don’t own the copyright. All articles written on SUMO are currently licensed in CC, so depending on the license used on other sites, the articles may or may not be compatible. You are free to take any article on SUMO and use on your own site, as long as you don’t violate the license terms.

    3.4: That’s correct. Hopefully, as more people start editing pages, some of these people will be good enough writers to deserve approval rights. It’s up to the locale leaders to define who are deemed «good enough» to carry this task, so it doesn’t have to be just one or two people. It could theoretically be ten people approving edits from hundreds of contributors.

    4: I’m not sure what you mean here. If you think we should have es-XX live chat, I would definitely want that too. Right now we need more people to help out, and if we are to open this up for Spanish, we need even more people. If you want to spearhead this to see how many potential helpers we could get, that would absolutely be interesting.

    Finally, thanks a lot for your feedback. We really depend on input from people like you. Really appreciate it!

    Btw, your English is not bad! 🙂

  2. 1: Well, I think this discussion shoundn’t be here, but I think Mozilla is only centered in Firefox (1.9 branch, or actually the trunk seems to be Firefox-only), but MoFo has other excellent products, like Sunbird (for me).

    2: No, I don’t see SUMO as a competitor, we are a community, and we need to help us to provide a very good support and help to the end-user.

    3.1: About translating, I think we should localize ONLY the main en-US articles and maybe link to our community. For en-US, you have: MozillaZine, MozillaLinks and a lot of websites, you have a very strong and established community, but in Spain we don’t have a big one, so I think (repeat) translate a few articles (Firefox 2 help files + updating to Firefox 3, and 10 readest articles) and provide a link to our community (actually is a es-XX community, so es-ES, es-AR… and maybe es-CL (Chile) and es-MX (Mexico) are in it) for all spanish users. Obviously if you think that it isn’t a good idea, report it and we will follow SUMO.

    3.3: I think the licence is not a problem in open-source community ;-D

    4: I have say it in 3.1, but I say that es-ES, and es-AR have the same community and little differences in the translation (but not to do only a es translation) so it could be helpful to have only one chat for es users.

    Some more questions: we have a forum too, could we link SUMO forum to ours?

    Thanks for your time…

    And, oh! Your 2002 dream, is real, isn’t it? 😛 Congrats for that!